Germany wants to significantly expand its defence capability. But it is no longer just about more ammunition and missiles. Air defence, drones and new technologies such as humanoid robots and space systems are also playing an increasingly important role.
Rheinmetall chief executive Armin Papperger talks about rearmament, current bottlenecks, and which weapons systems could prove decisive in future.
At the keel-laying ceremony for the third Class 424 fleet service vessel in Wolgast, we spoke to Papperger about Germany's arms production, the role of the Skyranger and the weapons of the future.
Euronews: Mr Papperger, in March you said missile stocks were worryingly low. What is the situation now?
Papperger: I think that is still the case. You simply cannot produce missiles that quickly, and that is why we at Rheinmetall are running a major investment programme – and we are not the only ones, many manufacturers are doing the same.
There are huge bottlenecks in missile motors, but also in warheads, and we need to move much, much faster to get Germany, but also Europe and NATO, back up to target levels that will be sufficient if we are threatened.
Euronews: Where do things stand with the Skyranger? The systems have been ordered, but will they arrive in time? How fast is it going now?
Papperger: With the Skyranger – and this is really a narrative that keeps coming up – the contract requires us to start series deliveries in 2027. And those deliveries will happen; we are currently only seeing minimal delays.
There are a number of technologies we need to update: the chassis, the radar technology and the missiles that have to be integrated.
But I am firmly convinced that together with the BAAINBw (Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support) and the ministry we will find a good solution here.
Our people are working on it day and night, and as you know, Skyranger production capacity is being massively expanded. From the end of next year we will build, or will be able to build, up to 400 systems a year. So I do not see any cause for concern.
Euronews: There is a joint venture for deep-strike capabilities. Where do we stand on that?
Papperger: On the one hand, we have the joint venture with Destinus, and on the other, the one we are setting up with Lockheed Martin. With Lockheed Martin we are working in the field of artillery rockets. We are developing the cruise missiles with Destinus. These two joint ventures are in the very final stage before signing, and we expect to receive the first order for cruise missiles at the end of this year or the beginning of next year.
Euronews: Shouldn't we be building simpler systems, but more of them? Isn't that what Ukraine is showing us?
Papperger: We are doing that as well, but in some areas it does not help. If you look at what the Skyranger can do today, it can shoot down a missile flying at Mach 3. You cannot do that with an interceptor and you cannot do it with a simple system.
And if you talk to the Inspector of the German Army today, he will tell you: "In two years' time the threat situation will look completely different." The Skyranger is genuinely a multi-capable system. We cannot achieve that with our interceptor solution or with our simpler systems.
We also have, for example, .50 guns with which we can shoot down light drones, Category 1 drones. But that becomes extremely difficult once you are dealing with, say, jet-powered drones – they are barely engageable in that way. That is why we believe a more sustainable solution is the better one.
Euronews: How big a driver of employment are the arms industry and Rheinmetall in particular?
Papperger: I think we are an important engine of job creation. At the moment, excluding our civilian business, around 34,000 people work at Rheinmetall. We are growing by a net 10,000 employees a year, and our goal is to reach 70,000 by 2030, with a supply chain employing a further 210,000 people. If you add that up, that is almost 300,000 people. That is a real engine for jobs.
Euronews: How quickly can arms and ammunition production be ramped up – for companies like Rheinmetall?
Papperger: We are already doing it. We have proved it, for example with ammunition. In medium-calibre ammunition we have gone from under one million rounds to four million. In artillery ammunition we have gone from 70,000 to 1.5 million rounds. In tank ammunition we are now at 240,000 rounds, up from 40,000, 50,000 or 60,000 depending on the year. So we are doing it. And what we are doing now is doubling our truck output.
In other words, the logistical and tactical vehicles are now being more than doubled. So we are doing our part. Right now we simply do not have the orders to do even more. Rheinmetall has a six-year investment programme worth 30 billion euros, and the sums we are currently investing are enormous. That is why it is so important to send a signal, as we have done again today, with the minister here on site and taking an active interest, so that we not only build up capacity but ensure that it is used in the long term and that people have work.
For me that is a very strong signal, a very positive signal, and it also reassures me somewhat that the federal government is really living up to its responsibilities here.
Euronews: What comes next? Drones have been a big topic recently. What is the next step? Space? Or are we already there? Or is it also about combat robots, humanoid robots?
Papperger: Robots will come, that is absolutely clear. We have a research centre in Bremen working on humanoid robots. We are actively developing in that field. We do not yet have products ready for series production, which is why we have not gone public with it yet. But we are investing a lot of money. Space is another area where we are investing heavily – in satellite construction on the one hand, and in communications processing on the other.
That means all the information we receive from satellites has to be processed properly. Drones are here to stay, and so is everything else, because it is all needed. For combined-arms warfare you need artillery, you need armoured weapons, you need conventional ammunition, you need drones and you need missiles.
The only question is how much of each you need. There has to be a mix. And that mix will change – in other words, the quantities in each area will shift.
Editor's note: You can also watch the latest Euronews exclusive report on the German armoured brigade in Lithuania:
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